Doc's eBay Motors Sucks Blog

ChargeBack Vehicle Titled Property Costs Seller $8500

From TV8 LasVegasNOW: Boat Seller defrauded of $8500 after buyer filed a fraudulent ChargeBack on used Boat sold on eBay Motors. Most credit card companies will not chargeback on “Titled Property” but this one did. It cost this eBay seller her boat and money. Only accept Bank to Bank Wire Transfer for Motor Vehicle Sales!

ChargeBack On Motor Vehicle Titled Property Costs Seller $8500

How this honest eBay seller lost $8500 on her used boat to a credit card chargeback on titled property

A local woman called 8 On Your Side Consumer Advocate Michelle Mortensen for help after she sold a boat on EBay through PayPal in May of 2015.

Months after the sale the buyer filed a chargeback on his credit card for various reasons. The buyer cited it was a lemon and that services were not rendered.

This after the woman, Toni Ristow Lloyd, says the buyer came to her home in Las Vegas to inspect the boat, purchase the boat and take it home to Arizona to be used all summer.

Once the chargeback was filed, PayPal came to her saying she owed them the $8500 earned in the sale. The problem was, that money had already been spent.

Unable to get anyone at PayPal to talk to her, she turned to Michelle. Michelle gathered evidence from Toni, the buyer, EBay, PayPal and the buyer’s credit card company.  She worked every angle of the case for nearly 4 months, but in the end PayPal’s user agreement overruled any evidence she uncovered.

PayPal’s seller agreement clearly outlines its policy on chargebacks and the seller’s responsibility if one occurs.

A chargeback can be filled weeks, or even months, after a purchase in some cases. The take away for you is simple. If you sell on EBay and use PayPal you may be responsible for any and all chargebacks filed in the transaction.

Be sure to review the policy careful before you engage in your next transaction.

A vehicle is considered titled property (car truck bus boat or anything with a title or registration.) In our opinion this buyer shouldn’t have been able to chargeback on titled property. What was said to the credit card company we do not know. Possibly the buyer claimed something else was purchased, or the support rep didn’t know the proper procedure for titled property.

We suggest filing an appeal with PayPal. Call PayPal and ask for a supervisor. Tell them this is Titled Property and to send an appeal on that basis to the credit card company in question.

PayPal is great for the buyer. Especially for buyers purchasing items on eBay or eBay Motors, where buyer fraud against sellers is openly supported. We blogged about another attempted chargeback that with our help was successfully reversed last year.

Like we said in that post – we suggest sellers of vehicles only accept a small good faith deposit via PayPal ($200-300), and have the balance bank wire transferred to the sellers bank account. There is no reversal with that method.

Further info on ChargeBack AKA Friendly Fraud is here on Wikipedia.

Former eBay Motors PowerSeller and retired licensed Florida used car dealer with over 40 years experience in the business blogs about eBay. He shares helpful advice for motor vehicle buyers and sellers. Have questions or need help? Ask Doc!

5 Comments

  1. Jerome Meyers

    Such a shame that buyer fraud is permitted by ebay. Fraudulent buyers flock to ebay and paypal to get free merchandise.

    I’m not a car person, but doc is probably right about chargeback on titled property.

    I hope this seller get her money and the buyer ends up in jail.

    Reply
    1. Doc

      This is a serious problem. Buyer defrauded seller of titled property via wire transfer of payment. Additionally the buyer is guilty of Grand theft of titled property by uttering a worthless wire payment. Add extortion which is another felony because he wants seller to pay him to return the property he obtained illegal.

      PayPal is good for a quick good faith deposit (200-300) and have the balance bank wire transferred. There is no reversal with a bank wire transfer. An approved payment method for eBay motors vehicles.
      Best
      wishes to the victim of this crime, Doc.

      Reply
      1. James Vienup

        Hi, I, unfortunately just recently suffered this same fate. I sold a vehicle via eBay Motors, buyer said he wanted to use PayPal for the payment, unbeknownst to me he used AmEx to make the payment to PayPal. A couple of days later he says to me in an email that the vehicle was not as described. He did not inspect the vehicle. He bought it sight unseen. He filed a dispute with PayPal. PayPal overturned his dispute-they don’t initiate or cover used vehicle sales. He then escalated the matter to AmEx who initiated a “chargeback.” PayPal now has charged me the purchase price of $21,500 and the buyer refuses to return the vehicle stating that I owe him over $3000 in storage fees.

        Reply
  2. Adam

    I as well went through this, I sold a unrestored classic truck for 4500 , customer paid with a Amex card through square reader, I am a dealer in Iowa and customer was located in mt. , HD video over 10 min long, 100 pics , terms clear, extremely up front about what the truck was, signed documents, customer called happy. Month and a half later we get a chargeback, no notice from customer etc, went through the process of responding through the dispute, Amex said it is a civil matter and they will side with the customer, it’s up to us to take him to court civilly, contacted our attorney and state officials ( as I sit on many Iowa dealer boards private and state I have many connections) end of the day we did everything right, would have won in any court of law, but ate the money and let it go as it came down to how much do you want to spend to prove your right and get a judgment( which prob ally would never be satisfied anyway) lesson leArned just to not take credit cards or Paypal for balance owed.

    Reply
    1. Doc (Post author)

      It’s a shame that buyers are still gaming the system to get free merchandise, and these PayPal car / vehicle deal chargeback are usually the most costliest fraud on eBay.

      I looked at your website / inventory, nice! I used to have a small lot years ago and did well when eBay was young. Had they taken experienced car dealers advice eBay Motors would be huge by now. They could have verified all the sellers and buyers.

      Even a membership club like Sams or Costco where sellers were business verified, possibly a small sellers performance bond, buyers paid an annual membership fee. But the execs became millionaires as buyers / sellers got defrauded.

      What’s left of the original eBay is not worth squat!

      Reply

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