Doc's eBay Motors Sucks Blog

Motor Vehicle Credit Card ChargeBack On Titled Property Reversed

This eBay Top Rated Seller in good standing since 2010 sold his 2005 Ford F-150 Lariat 4×4 pickup truck on eBay Motors. Seller accepted PayPal for the full purchase price. Buyer later attempted a chargeback. But in the end the good guys won!

Credit Card Chargeback Motor Vehicle

How to reverse a credit card chargeback on ‘titled property’ used motor vehicle

Seller claims the buyer (a licensed dealer) paid an initial deposit. Then paid the balance with PayPal $10,000. Seller claims the buyer used his photos to list the truck for sale, but it was ended because of an error. It has been 3 weeks and now the buyer is complaining the truck will not start.

But looking at the Buyers eBay listing: 281354599148 shows he was offering it for sale at $14,900. Chances are he made a deal with someone off of eBay and just ended his listing. That eliminates any possible paper trail, and prevents a buyer from leaving him negative feedback. I’ve see this done more times on eBay than i can remember.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED, I CAN HAVE IT SHIPPED FOR AROUND .60 CENTS A MILE. SO IF YOU LIVE 500 MILES FROM ME (37066) IT WOULD BE AROUND $300, 750 MILES WOULD BE $450, 1000 MILES WOULD BE $600 AND SO FORTH. YOU CANNOT BEAT THIS DEAL BECAUSE BY THE TIME YOU DRIVE ONE VEHICLE HERE AND TWO BACK YOU WOULD HAVE PAID THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY IN GAS AND NOT TO MENTION YOUR TIME AND MILES YOU WILL HAVE PUT ON EACH VEHICLE. SHIPPING IS THE MOST ECONOMICAL WAY TO GO AND THEY WILL DELIVER THE VEHICLE TO YOUR DOOR.

In my personal opinion as a retired car dealer. This buyer got a damn good deal for $10k and immediately put the truck up for sale before he received it himself. I’m thinking he sold it for a decent profit and will then ship the truck from his sellers location direct to his buyer. Pretty good gig if he didn’t try and squeeze his sellers for some money back after the sale (user id changed after this article was published) that replies to his feedback left for sellers does suggest.

From the eBay Motors forum:“We sold our first vehicle on eBay motors and already ran into problems. We sold the item number 261492296495 about three weeks ago. The buyer paid immediately both the deposit and then in full through Paypal. Then he waits until yesterday to pick up the truck through a transport company. During those three weeks he listed the truck using my pictures but his discription but it did not sell. He listed it twice during this time. The second time he ended the listing and we assumed he has sold it some way.

Now he has it in another state hundreds of miles away and sends a message that it will not start and sputters. This is not true at all. He has sent the message as item is not as described. He also leaves a lot of negative feedback. I did not see this until after the truck sold but I can see him calling sellers con artists a lot. What should we do? Message him back or ignore for the time being. I will be contacting eBay tomorrow but for now does any one have any suggestions or others that have ran into this problem before. The truck is exactly the way we described it. What is his tactics and what do you suggest I do about this?”

The first thing that crossed my mind when reading the discussion was the buyer was trying to finagle some money back for alleged needed repairs. That’s been done many times on eBay where the management is pro buyer. An example of that is this 1983 Renault LeCar that the buyer inspected in person and drove home, but then tried to extort $250 from the seller.

PayPal buyer protection Does Not Cover Vehicles or Vehicle Deposits. But some PayPal employees may not know this and let a buyer reverse a transaction. If that happens to you ask for a supervisor. Also if the buyer funded the transaction with a credit card he could file a chargeback with his credit card company.

A vehicle is whats referred to as “Titled Property” and most credit card issuers will not chargeback on titled property! But it’s possible the buyer could tell a tall tale about buying something else other than a vehicle!

Meanwhile the seller posted this: “I want to let everyone know how much we appreciate your help. After I posted this message I message one of the buyer’s with negative feedback (the only one eBay removed) and she answered me back this morning. Exact same situation with him. Took their truck said it was not as described and tried to chargeback $3K back through PayPal. She said she is currently being sued and offered his money back but he refused.

This guy needs to be stopped before more honest people get taken from the same guy. I appreciate the link for the truck being sold by the buyer using my original pictures before he saw or picked up the truck. I am reporting him to eBay shortly and I hope no one else gets taken by this crook. If you think of any thing else I would appreciate it. I will let everyone know what the outcome of all of this leads to. I have withdrawn all of the money from Paypal and will be visiting my bank shortly. Thanks for the heads up on this also.”

Personally speaking. I would advise vehicle sellers never to accept more than a small PayPal Deposit to seal the deal ($200-300) and have the balance bank wired into my account. There’s no chargeback reversals possible with that method.

Seller posted this: OK here we go. He did contact me again and said almost word for word another message thought might happen. He said fuel pump, sensor, fuel filter etc. That so far it has cost him $1000.00. He ended saying $500.00 would help with these repairs. I have not responded to him. Remember he does do charge backs through his credit card and Paypal.

Someone also mentioned me closing out my bank account, but what about PayPal. They are suing to get back $3K from one of his sellers currently. If they pay the credit card back they freeze your account. I sell minor things all the time and use my Paypal account. This will indeed cause some major headaches. Do I message back or wait for consequences, if there are any?

We are keeping an archive of this discussion which is turning into a vehicle chargeback nightmare for this top rated seller. Page-1 and Page-2 and Page-3 and Page-4.

Here is Page-5 captured on 08/17/2014 just before eBay Moderators trimmed TWO pages of posts from the discussion, including the buyers response to the allegations. The mod cited eBay Inc company policy for post removal.

The buyer has a previous reputation of leaving negative feedback for his buyers. eBay created this one-way system and openly supports buyers extorting money from sellers.

Or as eBay Radio Uncle Griff said: Trust and Safety, after a careful and lengthy review, determined that this was not feedback extortion. The intent of the buyer asking for a partial refund (which in and of itself does not constitute feedback extortion) was to redress what he believed to be a misrepresentation of the vehicle’s condition. 😆

Updated 06/24/14. The seller posted this last night: This morning first of all the guy demanded the money or threatened me with filing a VPP. Now he just messaged again demanding to know if I am going to pay TODAY or else. I have not messaged him back only once when eBay told me to tell him they told me not to pay him.

PLEASE HELP FIND A WAY TO STOP HIM FROM DOING THIS. HOW MANY PEOPLE DOES HE HAVE TO TORMENT BEFORE HE IS STOPPED. I KNOW I SAID ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ABOUT THIS TOPIC BUT I WANT SOME HELP FOR OTHERS WHO FALL PREY TO THIS BEAST. PLEASE READ THIS: This morning I messaged another one of this guy’s negative feedback. Through ebay messages he wanted $2000.00 and this guy selling was selling for someone else. They gave him back the 2K and then he turned around and chargedback $2000.00 through paypal from the seller. Check out jmm9cc’s feedback( left for other’s) you will see one that eBay removed (my first contacted person lost 3k) and now fivestar_race (My 2nd I contacted this morning for a total of 4K.) There are others and I am sure they will all have similar situations to report.

This is what eBay has done by creating a One Way Feedback System! And this is only one article about how buyers are extorting their sellers. Vehicles are some of the most expensive items for sale on eBay. And with this one way policy in place scamming buyers flock to eBay!

There’s even an eBook on Amazon titled “The Great BIG eBay Con – How to buy just about anything and get your money back” shame on eBay for enabling this fraud and being the buyers partner in crime!

Update 08/20/14: Amazon is saying this ebook is no longer available. Geez.. It must have went over like a fart in church in eBay’s board room. But we grabbed a Google Cache of the page with some of the comments and added to our archives. 😆

Update 08/19/2014: I have interviewed both the buyer and the seller. Here are the recordings. You be the judge of who is being truthful in this rift.

Buyer Interview:

Seller Interview:

Update 09/06/14. Received this from the seller: Hi, I was just about to message you when I checked my email. Last week Paypal sent the information to the guy’s credit card company and on the same day they closed the case. Our hard work and truthfulness paid off for once.

I appreciate all you have done and you can post that this one goes for the good guys. This would not have happened if you guys hadn’t did your part and keep all of us aware of the scams that go on. Keep up your good work and we so appreciate all you have done for us and continue to do for others. Thanks soooo much, Nancy Elaine.

eBay Item 261492296495

eBay Item 261492296495. Click image for full size view. Opens in new window. Click again to expand to full screen view

eBay has tossed their community values out the window. I remember back a few years ago Uncle Griff saying “If we don’t have buyers we will be out of business.” It was soon after that remark that the one way feedback policy went into effect.

It is my personal opinion that without the community values and trust eBay is no different than any other classified website on the net. It was that community and trust that made selling cars on eBay Motors work so well back in the good old days!

Former eBay Motors PowerSeller and retired licensed Florida used car dealer with over 40 years experience in the business blogs about eBay. He shares helpful advice for motor vehicle buyers and sellers. Have questions or need help? Ask Doc!

48 Comments

  1. Rob Candrell

    This buyer looks like a stinking extorting fraudster to me. He is obviously taking advantage of ebay’s pro buyer regime. Sooner or later they will run out of sellers. Contact the shipper that picked up the truck and see where it was shipped to. My bet would be that he shipped the truck direct to whoever he sold it to. Where is Judge Judy when we need her?

    Reply
  2. Anonymous

    VPP does not cover minor components like a fuel pump. Tell him to pound sand.

    Reply
    1. Doc

      That’s it. eBay Motors Vehicle Purchase Protection only covers major components. Read the fine print here: http://pages.motors.ebay.com/buy/purchase-protection/index.html

      Reply
  3. Tennessee Justice

    Someone needs to take this scamming ebay buyer out back behind the wood shed and whoop his ass!

    Reply
  4. Danny Stumbo

    I am the original seller for the Ford truck. Just today he called our cell phone and we did not answer. I checked my eBay messages and there wasn’t any. I do not know what he will do next but he does need to be stopped. If you check the feedback he leaves for others you will see he is a real piece of work. I know he will leave me negative feedback eventually. I am not communicating with him at all and I hope this is what all of you recommend. EBay just said let him file a VPP and we will decline it and to stop communicating with him. They said nothing about doing anything to stop the scumbag. Of course they are making money in any case so why would they? Any more suggestions? Thanks

    Reply
    1. Doc (Post author)

      Hi Danny, in my personal opinion your buyer is taking advantage of eBay’s failed one way feedback policy, and buyer favoritism.

      I’d call the Tennessee DMV Dealer Licensing Bureau and file a complaint against his license. http://state.tn.us/regboards/mvc/complaint.shtml

      Sorry to hear your going through hell with this buyer. And shame on eBay for allowing extortionists to use their platform. Just another Good Example Of Why eBayMotors Sucks!

      Best Wishes, Doc site admin.

      Reply
    2. Justin

      Let me start by stating this is a matter that will be in litigation shortly. I already have our attorney drawing up paperwork for Slander and Harassment charges on certain people one of which is the seller of the truck Danelaine5210 the other is this Bosco52 that has been Stalking, Sending Harrasing emails, and posting Degrading information along with the Danelaine5210 that I purchased the F150 from. Its a shame people get a kick out of this sort of thing such as the concluding emails have shown from Bosco52 on this forum as if this is a joke to harass and degrade someone without even knowing facts. As for the facts, Danelaine5210 has failed to provide one piece of compelling evidence showing anything she has stated was true about the truck situation. She has failed to inform anyone of the fact she was specifically asked ( via email which I still have and will provide in court) if there were any issues with motor, trans, rust, etc on the truck and stated “None”. When the truck arrived the trucker informed me it wouldn’t hardly go up on the trailer when he loaded it. Then in the process of unloading it sputtered the entire time. So I took it down the road and barely made it back after almost getting ran over and it died in the parking lot as soon as I pulled in and would not start for an hour. I contact Danelaine5210 immediately and told her I wanted to send the truck back not once but on 4 different occasions which I have documented. She proceeded to tell me that she had already used the money and gave me the story of here husbands condition and let me know she was on unemployment. I told her that I was sorry for her situation but it didnt justify selling me the truck in the condition it was in. I gave her ample opportunity to take the truck back which she refused so I then had it inspected at a Certified Ford Dealership which estimated over $4000 in repairs and I already have a receipt for almost $2000 I spent on the truck for a new pump, coil packs, multiple sensors, and brake work. The truck still has to have the cam phasers replaced which requires the entire motor being broke down. Also the cab corners on the truck are rusted out which is another specific item I asked about and was lied to. As for the response to the other people I have filed a charge back on such as the woman who is being sued for $3000 by paypal you absolutely right I did. She sold me a Cadillac Escalade that was not even the vehicle in the pictures. The car I recieved was a different color, had different wheels, no navigation, and no electric boards as specified in the AD. When I asked her to take it back she stated all sales were final then weeks later after I began putting stuff on the car such as upgraded wheels, electric boards, etc and she found out then she wanted the car back in its current condition after $5000 was spent on it to make it look the way she listed it in the pictures and description. Sorry but she was giving almost a month to take the car back and failed to do so. I would have even considered giving it back a month later if I hadn’t spent $5k on it. I have been screwed so many times by sellers on Ebay such as never getting a title for a truck I bought for my little brother or purchasing a authentic Saleen mustang that arrives and is a complete fake with fake vin plate, to even receiveing a Hummer that the seller changed the gauge cluster out for one with 100,000 miles less ( which the seller is about to be arrested any day now ). It really is a shame that you get bashed like this simply because you ask to get what you pay for. All I have ever asked is for a seller to be upfront answer my questions truthfully and sell me what they list and yes I understand it’s not going to be 100% perfect or even 90%. I will over look many issues but when a car has several thousand dollars in issues I have a problem and if the seller is unwilling to take it back I will seek justice clear and simple. Maybe it will weed out some of the conartist that think they can get away with selling junk because they dont think there are any repercussion. My feedback shows I buy hundered of cars off ebay and very seldom do I run into situations like this. The majority of negative feedback I have left for others is a year or more old. I leave negative feedback not by a means of extorsion but to warn people to stay away from the seller and leaving negative feedback is my last resort I take if all else fails in trying to resolve the issue with the seller. People wanting to bash and degrade someone without even knowing the facts first is obsurred to me especially when it pertains to someone just wanting what they pay for. If any fellow ebay memeber purchases something off Ebay and it shows up damaged or not as described they are going to take action plain and simple. If you go to Walmart and purchase something damaged your going to return it. So if you buy a car that was listed in great condition and it has $4-$5k in damages theres not one person in this world that is going to sit back and do nothing. You need to confront the real people doing wrong and that people such as Danelaine5210 selling stuff that they know is in poor condition but desperate for money so they dont care ( as clearly shown ). Like I said this will be a civil matter at this point because this has gotten way out of control and some people will be answering for the actions before a judge. If you would like to see any of the documents supporting this case they will be available after a hearing is arranged. I would highly suggest any comments made on this forum or any others defacing me for false accusations be removed because I will seek justice for anyone involved. I hope after anyone reads this they will understand and voluntarily retract any negative statements they have made about me without knowing both sides first thank you

      Reply
      1. Doc (Post author)

        OK Justin, I added a few paragraphs and corrected a few spelling errors.
        Here’s the result that will be much easier to read. Though my theme needs some work i see.

        Let me start by stating this is a matter that will be in litigation shortly.
        I already have our attorney drawing up paperwork for Slander and Harassment
        charges on certain people one of which is the seller of the truck Danelaine5210
        the other is this Bosco52 that has been Stalking, Sending Harassing emails, and
        posting Degrading information along with the Danelaine5210 that I purchased the
        F150 from.

        Its a shame people get a kick out of this sort of thing such as the
        concluding emails have shown from Bosco52 on this forum as if this is a joke to
        harass and degrade someone without even knowing facts. As for the facts,
        Danelaine5210 has failed to provide one piece of compelling evidence showing
        anything she has stated was true about the truck situation. She has failed to
        inform anyone of the fact she was specifically asked ( via email which I still
        have and will provide in court) if there were any issues with motor, trans,
        rust, etc on the truck and stated “None”.

        When the truck arrived the trucker informed me it wouldn’t hardly go up on
        the trailer when he loaded it. Then in the process of unloading it sputtered the
        entire time. So I took it down the road and barely made it back after almost
        getting ran over and it died in the parking lot as soon as I pulled in and would
        not start for an hour. I contact Danelaine5210 immediately and told her I wanted
        to send the truck back not once but on 4 different occasions which I have
        documented. She proceeded to tell me that she had already used the money and
        gave me the story of here husbands condition and let me know she was on
        unemployment. I told her that I was sorry for her situation but it didn’t
        justify selling me the truck in the condition it was in.

        I gave her ample opportunity to take the truck back which she refused so I
        then had it inspected at a Certified Ford Dealership which estimated over $4000
        in repairs and I already have a receipt for almost $2000 I spent on the truck
        for a new pump, coil packs, multiple sensors, and brake work. The truck still
        has to have the cam phases replaced which requires the entire motor being broke
        down. Also the cab corners on the truck are rusted out which is another specific
        item I asked about and was lied to.

        As for the response to the other people I have filed a charge back on such as
        the woman who is being sued for $3000 by PayPal you absolutely right I did. She
        sold me a Cadillac Escalade that was not even the vehicle in the pictures. The
        car I received was a different color, had different wheels, no navigation, and
        no electric boards as specified in the AD. When I asked her to take it back she
        stated all sales were final then weeks later after I began putting stuff on the
        car such as upgraded wheels, electric boards, etc and she found out then she
        wanted the car back in its current condition after $5000 was spent on it to make
        it look the way she listed it in the pictures and description. Sorry but she was
        giving almost a month to take the car back and failed to do so. I would have
        even considered giving it back a month later if I hadn’t spent $5k on it.

        I have been screwed so many times by sellers on Ebay such as never getting a
        title for a truck I bought for my little brother or purchasing a authentic
        Saleen mustang that arrives and is a complete fake with fake vin plate, to even
        receiving a Hummer that the seller changed the gauge cluster out for one with
        100,000 miles less ( which the seller is about to be arrested any day now ).

        It really is a shame that you get bashed like this simply because you ask to
        get what you pay for. All I have ever asked is for a seller to be upfront answer
        my questions truthfully and sell me what they list and yes I understand it’s not
        going to be 100% perfect or even 90%. I will over look many issues but when a
        car has several thousand dollars in issues I have a problem and if the seller is
        unwilling to take it back I will seek justice clear and simple.

        Maybe it will weed out some of the conartist that think they can get away
        with selling junk because they don’t think there are any repercussion. My
        feedback shows I buy hundred of cars off eBay and very seldom do I run into
        situations like this. The majority of negative feedback I have left for others
        is a year or more old. I leave negative feedback not by a means of extortion but
        to warn people to stay away from the seller and leaving negative feedback is my
        last resort I take if all else fails in trying to resolve the issue with the
        seller.

        People wanting to bash and degrade someone without even knowing the facts
        first is obscured to me especially when it pertains to someone just wanting what
        they pay for. If any fellow eBay member purchases something off EBay and it
        shows up damaged or not as described they are going to take action plain and
        simple. If you go to Wal-Mart and purchase something damaged your going to
        return it. So if you buy a car that was listed in great condition and it has
        $4-$5k in damages there’s not one person in this world that is going to sit back
        and do nothing. You need to confront the real people doing wrong and that people
        such as Danelaine5210 selling stuff that they know is in poor condition but
        desperate for money so they don’t care ( as clearly shown ).

        Like I said this will be a civil matter at this point because this has gotten
        way out of control and some people will be answering for the actions before a
        judge. If you would like to see any of the documents supporting this case they
        will be available after a hearing is arranged. I would highly suggest any
        comments made on this forum or any others defacing me for false accusations be
        removed because I will seek justice for anyone involved. I hope after anyone
        reads this they will understand and voluntarily retract any negative statements
        they have made about me without knowing both sides first thank you

        For the seller of a used vehicle. Be sure to add a Sold AS-IS Disclaimer to your listing. Older vehicles should always be sold AS-IS. Or like i used to say when i was in the car business, If it breaks in half, you own both halves. Plain and simple.

        For the buyer, Do Your Homework! Have a vehicle inspected before making a purchase. My internet car buying guide is here. If you do not INSPECT A USED VEHICLE FIRST, Don’t whine if what you receive is not as the seller described.

        Cover YOUR ASS People!

        Reply
  5. Bob

    Most people on this board know me, and believe me this buyer is not being stalked by myself or anyone…I did just listen to a 10 minute podcast between the truck buyer and a certain person on a different venue….He basically claims that he is the victim here, not the OP….Somewhere in the middle is the truth I am sure….However when asked by the reporter about his track record on ebay feedback left,again he claims to be a victim…..when asked why he doesnt have vehicles inspected before agreeing to buy a vehicle he had no plausible reply…..If this buyer has such a hard time buying over the web, why keep doing it?, that makes no sense….Being a dealer he has to have dealer contacts or dealer auctions available to him,right?…It was refreshing to hear him say in the podcast that he is dropping the $1k paypal chargeback attempt…Hopefully that is a true statement and the OP could come back to here and confirm that….As to litagation, I really dont think all of us here in a public forum have to worry about it…if thats the case does he go after all the people on ebay to who say what happened to them after dealing with this buyer?…It is still a free democracy and people have their opinions, whether they agree with him or just stating their opinions or views, or just asking questions……

    Reply
  6. Elaine Stumbo

    Wow this has got way out of hand. I have all the messages that has been sent between our buyer and ourselves. Just a few things I want to address, first of all the only reason I ever mentioned my husband’s health problems was that he could not drive the truck and it just sits in the drive way and it was a great truck to just have it to look at. Secondly, the truck pulled upon the truck that transported it as smooth as can be. I was in my vehicle and watched my husband talk to the guy who picked up the truck and his son. They were admiring the truck and were laughing and joking around. Please see the pictures it WAS a very nice truck. I should not be surprised at all the things that have taken place. I hate to have the attitude “Trust no one”. This is how I feel. Also currently my Paypal account still has the $1K case open and I need to respond and I certainly will. My last questions is simply this, If this buyer is so concerned he is going to be cheated and has been time and time again, why doesn’t he come himself or send someone he can trust to check the automobiles he buys before paying in full. My answer to my own questions is simply this, he knows the process, he figures he can always chargeback and increase his profit margin. It is all about money and everyone knows this. If anyone wants more information I would be glad to offer my information openly and freely because I have a lot of evidence myself I will share. Elaine,,,,,, [email protected]

    Reply
    1. Justin

      So the $4000 estimate from the Ford Dealership for the damages and the $2000 receipt I have in repairs already is just made up then correct? Or did all of these damages happen on the shipping truck in the 5 hour journey it took on a trailer not even running? Because I really don’t see how cam phaser, timing chain, fuel pump, coil packs, etc can go bad on while on a trailer and not not even running. Your a joke I hope you do have some documentation because believe me you will need it in court and please go ahead and tell everyone if I did or did not ask you specifically about certain items wrong with the truck before buying that you lied about and also if I did or did not ask you numerous times to take the truck back. The $1000 case through paypal has been dropped but you will be facing a lot more than that by the time this is over. You have made a bed you are fixing to lay in so see you real soon in court. I have never been the type to throw the book at someone but what you have done with all of this is obsurred and you will not get away with it. Also whatever money my lawyer gets from you in the law suit I will turn around and donate to a Internet Fraud Charity to help wipe people like you off the web from screwing over anyone else! So keep typing cause your only digging yourself a deeper hole my friend!

      Reply
      1. Anonymous

        Justin, it’s obvious by your last comment, you are trying to get money from this seller. You know there are no grounds for a lawsuit on this transaction.

        Used cars sold by private individuals are as-is. It’s like Doc said, if it breaks in half you own both halves. And as a Licensed Dealer you know this is a fact.

        Reply
  7. Sam

    Justin…,you sound like a spoiled brat who doesn’t take responsibility well….really, you expect vehicles with no wear and tear?…u didn’t know about the ford engine problems???u aren’t much of a knowledgeable dealer in my book.

    Reply
    1. Justin

      The basis of the lawsuit will be the Slander that has taken place and a direct result of Elaine’s false accusations the damages are the least of my concerns at this point. As for the wear and tear apparently someone doesn’t read because I specifically stated I didn’t care about normal wear and tear or even $1000 or more in issues but when it comes to $4-$5k in issues which is half the price of the truck yes I think anyone is going to have issues with that. And if a spoiled brat is someone just wanting what they paid for then Ill take that name all day long. Anyone on here can cast the stone all day but guarantee if the roles were reversed you would react the same way. I am done with this forum so say what you want but I will not be commenting or replying to anything else thanks.

      Reply
      1. Doc (Post author)

        Justin, I’m not an attorney but as a US citizen I am entitled to my personal opinion. That’s affored by the Constitution of the United States. People have a right to state their opinion on any public forum without fear of persecution.

        You bought a vehicle as-is without doing an inspection and admitted that wouldn’t work for you. It is looking more and more like what the seller posted is the truth. eBay openly supports buyers working sellers for money back if the buyer feels the vehicle was not as described. Uncle Greif will attest to that. But just because eBay condones such behavior does not make it right.

        I have invited the seller to call me for an interview tomorrow. Meanwhile if you want to scan your repair invoices and email them to me I will post them to the article.

        Reply
  8. Sam

    I thought Elaine was saying in her own words what she states you have done and telling people what your emails were like,and asking for advice…That is not slander, that is a discussion of someone frustrated that a person would try that kind of thing…ALSO,your feedback history on toolhaus speaks even more volumes than ebays,as ebay removes negs if pressed on the issue and we have seen now what you have as a long running track record…Sorry,Justin, but I dont see where you have a leg to stand on…btw, how do you justify reusing the sellers pictures in your listing of the vehicle, and marking it up 50%.. how do you justify not inspecting BEFORE you buy?, thrn blaming a seller for stuff an inspection would catch….One could think you took advantage of someone when they were having some life problems,and you of all people as a dealer, know ,anything can be wrong with a used vehicle,and stuff can happen with no notice……..Sadly ,you fit the stereotype of what is wrong with ebay at the current time.

    Reply
    1. Justin

      The terms Fraud, Conartist, and Scam associated with my name are considered Slander. Here is the legal definition of “Slander” if you didn’t know and would like to be made aware of it (the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person’s reputation) which has been done. My question to you is why don’t you talk about the other 400 plus positive feedbacks on my account or the thousands of cars transactions that went smooth as silk instead of the 4 or 5 negative comments I’ve left for people who have royal screwed me. You don’t want to do that because you get more interest out of drawing negativity out of this situation than positivity. Your just like the news, negative publicity gets more attention than positive thats why that is 70% of what they report. A 1000 acts of kindness will go unnoticed but a single act of negativity will be upheld forever. Thats the way the world operates today and it disgust me. Also for the re-listing of the truck. I sell numerous vehicles all the time where they sit. I had intentions of waiting until I got the truck to list it but it took 3 weeks to get picked up because of the bad location it was in so I tried to sell it from that spot. If I sell a vehicle from another area than my own I will always let the buyer know the situation, that I have purchased the vehicle, it is waiting to get shipped, and I have not put my eyes on it and am soley relying on the person i bought it from’s description and answers to my questions. If the truck did sell and showed up in a condition other than what was presented to me by the seller I will work out an adjustment on the price or take the vehicle back with no hesitations. Also the truck was completely paid for at the time I listed it so I obtained all right to do whatever I wanted with the vehicle. I have never listed something that was not legally mine and never will. The only thing I will admit is border crossing the line is using the sellers pictures to re-list. If they has copyright infringements on them I would not touch them but whenever I sell something where it sits ( which is very rare ) I have to use the pics from where I purchased it. Again the only time I ever try to sell something in another state is when I am having trouble getting it shipped to me. Sometime it is east to ship stuff to another location than to mine so I will post it for sale where it sits. There is nothing illegal about that and like I mentioned the property is legally mine so you can throw that out the window as an issue. As for the inspection process I will explain this one last time. I have been through every scenario possible buying on Ebay. I have paid for inspections that have failed and seller would not return my deposit. I have paid for inspections without sending a deposit and literally have the seller use my inspection report to sell to another person as soon as it’s done for more money and just lost the inspection fee. I have also picked vehicles up in person and drove back to find out that the odometer had been tampered with. The only safe way to purchase a vehicle off of Ebay is to make sure you have some sort of protection to fall back on if stuff hits the fan. The auto industry is flooded with crooks these days and you have to make sure your I’s are dotted and T’s crossed on every purchase because they are getting more and more clever. We can go on and on about this but it sounds like it’s going no where and honestly I have a family and career to deal with instead of dealing with this. I could have just said screw it and not even justified anything but people need to know the truth. Every option given has already been tried and is easier said than done. There is no justification for someone just simply not putting a extra sentence in their listing about excessive damages or answer a question truthfully. Thats all I have asked and the people who have done that say they have never had a easier transaction in their life than with me. If you don’t believe me read some of my feedback. The moral of this blog is simple, honesty will eliminate any and all headaches possible when dealing with a vehicle transaction. You don’t have to name every scratch or call every ding but you do need to drop a dime on major mechanical issues exceeding $1000 which is one of the qualifications of VPP. So go ahead and keep posting some more negative comments or put me down because that what the crowd want to see and thats why people keep posting. My jaw would drop if someone actually sided with me in saying that sellers need to make sure what they are listing is accurate and be honest and upfront about their product. I guess since I didn’t start the thread even though I have made numerous valid points I will still be considered the bad guy no matter what. It’s just crazy to me that not once has someone said it’s a little weird that the truck has $4000 in repairs needed after leaving the seller house and rusted cab corners and the seller claims the truck didn’t leave that way. How do cab corners get rusted out in, motor go bad, and truck not run in 6 hours? No one will look at that they will just continue looking at anything they can fuel the fire with because thats all this blog is is for pure entertainment at the sake of others.

      Reply
      1. Doc (Post author)

        Justin, this blog criticizes how eBay Inc does business selling vehicles, and to advise consumers how to safeguard themselves when making internet vehicle purchases. I predicted this exact situation back in 2009. Why Would Anyone Want To Sell Their Car On eBay Motors?. This is a prime example of that article.

        Nobody has published your name or your phone number. As for eBay when you list a vehicle for sale it becomes public record, just like your Feedback profile.

        Like i said last night, send me your repair receipts.

        Reply
      2. Sam

        JUSTIN, AGAIN,maybe you just don’t want to face the music, but the time to inspect is BEFORE paying any money to a seller, not after, period…it is a simple concept….By spending $50 to $250, you would have the facts before you in a report that would tell you if you want to bid or buy said vehicle…Money well spent, and it protects you , and if a seller wont let you do one, then you walk away and save thousands and more grief, am I right?…but you cant seem to grasp that basic concept….You apparently buy blindly, then nitpick the vehicles and expect the sellers to refund to basically “redo” the vehicle…I and many would rather be out an inspection fee, but still have thousands in my bank, than to buy wrecklessly…Justin, be a man and just admit you aren’t a real savvy car buyer and wont take responsilbilty on car deals…As mentioned, you are the stereotype of car buyer that ebay has become….Until you change your buying habits, and do pre purchase inspections, this will and could keep happening to you…Time to make a change there ,young man.

        Reply
  9. Stop Internet Fraud (@stopfraudteam)

    I wanna see repair receipts and a statement from an authorized auto Ford mechanic that the truck doesn’t run. If you can’t produce that and the seller gets sued by this guy, I recommend that the seller file a counter suit when responding to the Plaintiff if the seller gets served.Time off from work and other expenses can be awarded. I think the truth is in the middle here, but seeing the repair receipts would totally sway my opinion about the buyer. Make sure the vin number matches the vin in the ebay auction as well. No printing out fake invoices either.

    Reply
  10. Justin

    Hey guys I have come to the realization that this is nothing more than a form of “The Jerry Springer Show” and at first it’s entertaining but now I’m over it. I have a wife and kid that I will not take another minute of my life away from them for this forum so good luck with your badgering because no matter what you call me or what you say I don’t care anymore. I would highly suggest getting out and breathing some fresh air besides sitting behind a computer all day being miserable and doing stuff like this because it’s not good for you but if you want to continue be my guest. The seller can provide all documents after the hearing and the Jerry Springer Show can continue lol good luck!

    Reply
    1. Doc (Post author)

      Jerry Springer Show.. 🙄

      This is more of like an unofficial court of public opinion than anything else.

      The difference between this public forum and eBay’s is everyone is able to voice their opinions without fear of censorship or persecution. Unlike eBay’s Motors forum where the moderator whacked TWO Pages of posts, including the buyers response to the sellers allegations. Ive never been a fan of censorship!

      Reply
  11. Doc (Post author)

    From the eBay Motors forum discussion about this deal.

    And to add to the previous post above me, most of us ebayers on this board are or WERE long time sellers,or power sellers here, making ebay tens of thousands in fees. Due to their erratic policies always changing , creating loopholes so sellers can be scammed out of their money and what they are selling,and heavy handed moderators, most of the regulars have moved on and dont sell here and more importantly dont post here and offer free advice on problems that people ask about.

    This thread has been trimmed by 2 pages since last nite, which is almost unbelievable. Where are we? Nazi Germany? Blatant censorship by heavy handed moderators that dont understand the free democracy concept or high handedness censorship to make it appear that ebay is utopia!

    Many of us have already archived the thread before it was ripped apart by the mods, “you can take away part of the thread, but you cant take away our right to go elsewhere and post and to sell and buy elsewhere” ebay has become a toilet, especially with the flip -flop on feedback and keeping an eye on bad buyers, as this buyer is a prime example, just take a look at toolhaus, that speaks volumes about this buyer.

    Yet ebay would prefer to sanitize feedback, so things look better than they are, when if they were really doing things PRO-ACTIVELY, they would see that this buyer has a long track record, especially by viewing toolhaus.

    IMO he needs removed as a buyer, few years back when I had that trouble with that buyer in Pa. I had printed all feedback before Ebay sanitized it, compared it to toolhaus and was amazed at what ebay does to look “clean” it is just a shame that good people get censored for no reason other than to make ebay look “clean” one would think that ebay would want a well-run ship, too bad they are trying to create one the wrong way.

    IMO, by their high handed and incorrect censorship and deleting of posts and feedback, otherwise you all have a nice week, and let us pray Ebay comes to their senses some day soon and get things done the right way!!!!!

    Reply
    1. Doc (Post author)

      Wow, lithium sure pulled that post fast.

      Think I will look for my old pink slap award from the good old days. In 2004 I started a censor free forum and then LieWorld mods gave me 30 days in the pink poke.

      Lots of classic goodies are archived at https://www.ebaymotorssucks.com/bb/index.php got eBay NARU thread and lots more.

      Reply
  12. Stop Internet Fraud (@stopfraudteam)

    ebay will never come to their senses.The idiot bunch are told what to do by John Donahoe and they flat out do it. No wonder why every month you have eBay executives jumping shit, they just can’t feel good about knowing how their policies are scamming people. This buyer was convincing in his phone call. Sounds like he needs to start selling mopeds.

    Reply
    1. Sam

      For those who didnt list to the sellers podcast, she stated that as of the time of the podcast the buyer HAS NOT dropped the chargeback attempt like he claimed he would yesterday…Speaks volumes ,I believe,as to the buyers lack of honesty or integrity.Please listen to both podcasts and draw your conclusions.

      Reply
      1. Doc (Post author)

        I offered to post Justin’s repair invoices, but never heard from him other to call this site a Jerry Springer show.

        Anyone have access to a CarFax account? Just curious if there was a recent title transfer on this truck.

        Reply
  13. Rob

    This post is an excellent example why selling cars on eBay is a waste of time and money. They literally screwed this once great venue into the ground because they know nothing about the car business.

    Reply
    1. Wilbur

      Rob,you are totally right, the operator of this forum has said for years that they need a car person in charge of ebay motors, so faith and trust can be restored.

      Reply
    2. Sam

      I see that the thread on ebay about this keeps getting edited and reduced….Talk about censorship!…Bunch of pc correct geeks that hide behind computers, trying to look busy for their bosses!

      Reply
  14. JT

    In my opinion I think this buyer is a scammer. I wrote the same on EBIAJ’s site. Sounds like a diesel. I know exactly what that is. It is the exhaust manifold. I have the same issue on mine and it is a common problem. The part costs less than $200. He went to the Ford dealership? If I went into a Ford dealership right now I could spend $5000. replacing exhaust manifolds, ball joints, tie rods, differental covers, brakes, rotors, spark plugs, etc. It doesn’t mean the truck is damaged. Inspect the vehicle first. This guy is a scammer and doesn’t understand what used means! The truck is 10 years od.

    Reply
  15. JT

    People think the sounds like a diesel is because of the cam phasers. It is actually the exhaust manifod 9 times out of 10. You can go t f150online to conirm it.

    I also want proof that it doesn’t run and that it doesn’t just need a new battery. Something is very fishy here. Exhaust manifold is $100 somthing dollars from Ford. Sounds like the buyer wants a 10 year old truck to be restored to like new codition.

    Also, tip for sellers out there don’t answer a buyer like this if they want to know a laundry list of items or if there is any rust and they won’t come out for an inspection. These SCAMming buyers will try to use that against you. The scammer will find some rust omewhere, on the frame rail or some surface rust under a tonneau cover and say you “lied”. Best thing is to sell it “off” ebay and don’t use PayPal. If the chargeback didn’t go through close you bank account.

    Reply
  16. JT

    Final thought: The buyer was a scammer from day 1, trying to resell it before he picks up. This buyer is a major league a hole complaining about rust on a truck that orignally came from Florida.

    Reply
    1. JT

      One more thing: Sounds/Ticks like a diesel is injectors, which is normal. Cam phasers make a light knock at warm idle, which is also normal. Tick can also be from exhaust an manifold leak.These are design issues, not condition issues. They will all sound like Diesels, some sound lik diesels fom the day of purchase. You need to embrace it.

      Reply
      1. Doc (Post author)

        I hear the mods are handing pink vacations out over yonder at the Furors forum.

        We have sensor and pink slap free web forums here. They run under our WordPress blog software and work well, in my humble opinion. Everyone is welcome to discuss eBay or any other subject. Here is the forum link.

        Doc's EBMS Web Forums

        And here is our classic phpBB3 forums with posts dating back to 2004.

        Reply
  17. Mike

    I have been following this forum as well as the Ebay forum and it amazes me how bad people will point a finger at someone for just wanting honesty up front. Just like the Ebay forum states from one user called “indythings”,
    He states the following:

    I don’t see the feedback extortion

    I see an unhappy buyer who leaves negatives.

    I’m not aware that there was a threat involved here concerning feedback.

    If there was proof of this negatives can be removed from sellers feedback.

    happens all the time.

    Unhappy buyers always try an return stuff doesn’t matter whether its a vehicle or a part.

    Over da years of readin stuff here… there is a tendency to make believe that sellers are important here

    No buyers an less buyers equate to less profits.

    Passing judgement on anything without both sides of a story isn’t what many call fair.

    Often found that the ones making the biggest noise… When they have nothing ta worry about.

    Are coverin sumthing up

    Like I stated they both made mistakes. Hopefully others can learn from those mistakes.

    Live and learn opinion

    I think all the people that continue to blame the buyer are doing so at this point just to get their jollys off. Ed you have made it clear from your phone conversation that your on disability and retired but I know plenty of car salesman that are disabled and still work everyday. So I wouldnt imagine selling cars would be impossible with hip surgery infact speaking of fraud maybe we should have you looked into for disability fraud.

    Your story doesn’t add up itself Ed. You get kicked off Ebay because you cursed them out too much then you “Retired” because you are disabled?? Are you sure you didn’t get kicked off Ebay and go out of business for fraudlent reasons yourself or hopefully your not the same Doc in FL linked to a Child Porngrphy case because that would be sick and disturbing. You definetly do sound more suspicious than anyone on this thread and also in several of your others and it’s apparent you are a miserable old man that gets his jollys off by instigating fights. Sorry but that not what I call life just because your miserable don’t try to instigate stuff when you have no say so since you are in the same boat

    Now you hate Ebay because they are the crooks and hate this buyer because they want what they paid for. Sounds like this has happened to you a few times in the past because you might have been misrepresenting stuff and Ebay suspended your account for fraud. So before you or anyone sits back and point fingers take a look in the mirror because I think you need the biggest reality check out of everyone because you sound very suspicious to me for multiplte reason. I bet if someone dug into your back ground they would find some very interesting things.

    Now back to this situation, I’m not taking sides for either party but I do agree that the seller is a little suspicious just like indythings pointed out on Ebay Forum. I do agree with the buyer that honesty would solve all of this. If I bought something and it arrived not as described I don’t care if it’s a rip in the seat I’m gonna be pissed if it wasn’t mentioned bottom line. Yes the buyer could have gotten an inspection and yes he’s wrong for that but more fault lies on the seller not being honest. Just listening to her talk about the car just sitting there in the yard and them buying a new car and didn’t know what to do with it throws up a red flag instantly to me. Why did she just not trade it in on the new vehicle and kill two bird with one stone hmmm I guess because all the dealer noticed the problems that the buyer was not made aware of and she probally knew she wouldn’t get anywhere near $10k if she mentioned the problems in the Ebay listing or questions seller asked

    You guys can continue on and in the meantime I’m gonna do some research on this Ed Character which I’m sure he will probally ban me for speaking my mind concerning him but seriously I have watched and observed this guy long enough. If he can state his opinion on other people then other people should be able to state their opinion on him. Just listening to him talk on the recording and reading some of his post and this and other forums make me think he does this to feel better about things he has actually done wrong himself. He will remain a miserable old man that sits behind a computer all day looking forward to the next argument he can start so he can make it through his day and get his jollys off again and again and again. Speaking of again, I really hope he is not the one involved with the child thing because I will absolutely die If he is. If he doesn’t ban me I will let you know what info I find out on him and create my own forum on google titled “Beware of Doc” and let you know what all he has done because I promise you I have a sixth sense and I have a very strong feeling there is something fishy about this guy and he makes himself feel better about things he has done in his past by putting others down. So stay tuned for a Doc forum if you like real entertainment people. Also goodluck to both parties and sorry if this post was off the topic but I feel it needed to be said after a long time of watching Ed’s multiple forums, tape recordings, and his post like he’s a saint and everyone else is a sinner. If he deletes this post you automatically know he has something to hide so lets see.

    Reply
    1. Doc (Post author)

      Hi Justin / Mike..

      Your Busted! 😆

      Multiple personality disorder?

      Yes go ahead and investigate me all you want, I haven’t had even a parking ticket in my life.

      How can anyone believe anything you have said when you use another of your personalities to insinuate that I’m a child molester, among other things? I am not a fan of censorship, and do not pull posts i don’t like. That’s how the Furor over yonder runs his forums.

      I rest my case.

      Reply
      1. sam

        Justin, Justin, Justin, or should I say Mike, Mike, Mike???…SIR , you have almost zero credibilty now and before you used another ID to try to lie about things….Ed is a retired salesman that worked for a company, he did not own the company, so you don’t know what you are talking about….I have met him and know that he is disabled and qualified for disability…Long story short ,he had hip surgery that didnt go well…Enough of Ed, Justin/Mike, you are the one who has a track record of deceit and attempted extortion based on ebay feedback , contacts and sworn statements that have bee made thru your former buyers that you tried this same money back ,chargeback crap with…Your feedback on toolhaus , basically rips you a new one, so to speak ,as to credibility…You should be ashamed for what you try to do to people, you should be ashamed for saying in the podcast that you had dropped the paypal/chargeback attempt, yet didn’t ,as of the time the seller made her podcast. You are not a business man, you are a manipulator of the system, IMO…Also, if you haven’t figured this out yet let me advise you that your state BMV licensing division has been notified of your actions and attempts, as well as ABC News/20/20, who may do a story on you as a prime example of what is wrong with ebay motors, and the authorities have been contacted concerning your extortion attempts….The neat thing about ebay and paypal is you leave a perfect paper trail , date stamped and everything!!…Enjoy your double life!

        Reply
  18. Mike

    Last statement that will be made is you know what you have done and you can lie to all of these people but the truth will pre vale shortly about yourself my man. You can badger people all you want but your about to be a victim of your own game and it starts by looking in the mirror instead of calling the kettle black and you know exactly what I’m talking about. I have already found one person you have screwed over while you were in business the list will continue as for the charges I already have a friend that works for the government looking into both that and your disability case. You want to make false accusations on people then the truth will be unveiled about you. Type away along with your other characters you have made up on here to pretend that you actually have a discussion board. Goodluck because this website will be blocked after message has been sent thanks because I don’t sit behind a computer all day trying to figure out how to make people lives miserable because I’m on disability. So have fun with that and I will make my own thread of all the scams that are found about yourself which I have already located one and I’m sure the list will go on. Have fun with your conversation. You will be dealing with attorneys shortly anyways for numerous items wrong with your post. First of which is Copy Right Infringement for taking stuff away from Ebay’s site and posting to your page. Their legal department is already building a case as we speak since Ebay Motors Sucks and then you got a whole nother situation at hand for revealing personal information such as user names, telephone number, company names, etc without permission. So get your boots on cause S%$& just got deep. Post away but the site is now blocked thanks

    Reply
    1. Doc (Post author)

      Mike / Justin

      You have shot your own credibility all to hell here.

      I would suggest you research the definition of “Fair Use Of Copyrighted Works.” Here, let me assist you. Read THIS on Wikipedia.

      It’s obvious you have to always get the last word in, but I’m done posting to you. I gave you the opportunity to supply receipts for repairs done to the truck. But all you did was try and discredit me and this consumer awareness website. You shot your own credibility all to hell and back.

      Reply
    2. Sam

      What does he mean…”the site is now blocked?”…this is and always will be a public forum/discussion board on how to NOT be take on ebay Motors…Both the moderator and many of the posters had been with ebay almost from day one…when it used to be a credible site…It has been on a downward cycle for years and may not recover…It is way too easy for people to manipulate and use ebays’ and Paypal to get back money or get items for free even!…I think one can say from following this transaction ,both on ebay boards and here ,that this buyer lacks credibilty, has a track record and may just be mad now ,and spouting off because he may not prevail on what he is trying to do, due to the coverage on the incident and pending investigations into him by various entities…..if the man had any shred of decency, he would immediately go to paypal and cancel his attempt, and from this point on do pre-purchase inspections, and stop blaming everyone but himself…Remember,Justin/Mike…actions speak louder than words…

      Reply
      1. Doc (Post author)

        As we often said in the car business, there’s an ASS for every seat 💺 and this guy sure revealed his true attitude for everyone to see.

        Reply
    3. Sam

      …I love the idea that the guy thinks he is being libeled or slandered…all people are doing is reporting on what is easily findable on the internet about this buyer and how he conducts himself….its not like it was pulled from the sky magically!….the buyer has no one to blame but himself,IMO. and doesn’t realize till the last few days that things like this can and will come back to haunt him…

      Reply
  19. BB

    What is the buyer’s user name? I need to add him to my blocked bidder’s list.

    Reply
    1. Wilbur

      His ebay ID is…jmm9cc.

      Reply
      1. Doc (Post author)

        Lets lay off the comments for the time being please.

        The seller has been in contact with PayPal but as of this comment there is no resolution that i am aware of. I will post any updated information if and when i receive it.

        Regards, Doc – Da Moderator.

        Reply
  20. Doc (Post author)

    Just received this update from the seller: Hi, I was just about to message you when I checked my email. Last week Paypal sent the information to the guy’s credit card company and on the same day they closed the case. Our hard work and truthfulness paid off for once. I appreciate all you have done and you can post that this one goes for the good guys. This would not have happened if you guys hadn’t did your part and keep all of us aware of the scams that go on. Keep up your good work and we so appreciate all you have done for us and continue to do for others. Thanks soooo much, Nancy Elaine

    Reply

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