Motor Vehicle Credit Card ChargeBack On Titled Property Reversed
06/21/2014 Last Updated
This eBay Top Rated Seller in good standing since 2010 sold his 2005 Ford F-150 Lariat 4×4 pickup truck on eBay Motors. Seller accepted PayPal for the full purchase price. Buyer later attempted a chargeback. But in the end the good guys won!
Seller claims the buyer (a licensed dealer) paid an initial deposit. Then paid the balance with PayPal $10,000. Seller claims the buyer used his photos to list the truck for sale, but it was ended because of an error. It has been 3 weeks and now the buyer is complaining the truck will not start.
But looking at the Buyers eBay listing: 281354599148 shows he was offering it for sale at $14,900. Chances are he made a deal with someone off of eBay and just ended his listing. That eliminates any possible paper trail, and prevents a buyer from leaving him negative feedback. I’ve see this done more times on eBay than i can remember.
IF YOU ARE INTERESTED, I CAN HAVE IT SHIPPED FOR AROUND .60 CENTS A MILE. SO IF YOU LIVE 500 MILES FROM ME (37066) IT WOULD BE AROUND $300, 750 MILES WOULD BE $450, 1000 MILES WOULD BE $600 AND SO FORTH. YOU CANNOT BEAT THIS DEAL BECAUSE BY THE TIME YOU DRIVE ONE VEHICLE HERE AND TWO BACK YOU WOULD HAVE PAID THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY IN GAS AND NOT TO MENTION YOUR TIME AND MILES YOU WILL HAVE PUT ON EACH VEHICLE. SHIPPING IS THE MOST ECONOMICAL WAY TO GO AND THEY WILL DELIVER THE VEHICLE TO YOUR DOOR.
In my personal opinion as a retired car dealer. This buyer got a damn good deal for $10k and immediately put the truck up for sale before he received it himself. I’m thinking he sold it for a decent profit and will then ship the truck from his sellers location direct to his buyer. Pretty good gig if he didn’t try and squeeze his sellers for some money back after the sale (user id changed after this article was published) that replies to his feedback left for sellers does suggest.
From the eBay Motors forum:“We sold our first vehicle on eBay motors and already ran into problems. We sold the item number 261492296495 about three weeks ago. The buyer paid immediately both the deposit and then in full through Paypal. Then he waits until yesterday to pick up the truck through a transport company. During those three weeks he listed the truck using my pictures but his discription but it did not sell. He listed it twice during this time. The second time he ended the listing and we assumed he has sold it some way.
Now he has it in another state hundreds of miles away and sends a message that it will not start and sputters. This is not true at all. He has sent the message as item is not as described. He also leaves a lot of negative feedback. I did not see this until after the truck sold but I can see him calling sellers con artists a lot. What should we do? Message him back or ignore for the time being. I will be contacting eBay tomorrow but for now does any one have any suggestions or others that have ran into this problem before. The truck is exactly the way we described it. What is his tactics and what do you suggest I do about this?”
The first thing that crossed my mind when reading the discussion was the buyer was trying to finagle some money back for alleged needed repairs. That’s been done many times on eBay where the management is pro buyer. An example of that is this 1983 Renault LeCar that the buyer inspected in person and drove home, but then tried to extort $250 from the seller.
PayPal buyer protection Does Not Cover Vehicles or Vehicle Deposits. But some PayPal employees may not know this and let a buyer reverse a transaction. If that happens to you ask for a supervisor. Also if the buyer funded the transaction with a credit card he could file a chargeback with his credit card company.
A vehicle is whats referred to as “Titled Property” and most credit card issuers will not chargeback on titled property! But it’s possible the buyer could tell a tall tale about buying something else other than a vehicle!
Meanwhile the seller posted this:“I want to let everyone know how much we appreciate your help. After I posted this message I message one of the buyer’s with negative feedback (the only one eBay removed) and she answered me back this morning. Exact same situation with him. Took their truck said it was not as described and tried to chargeback $3K back through PayPal. She said she is currently being sued and offered his money back but he refused.
This guy needs to be stopped before more honest people get taken from the same guy. I appreciate the link for the truck being sold by the buyer using my original pictures before he saw or picked up the truck. I am reporting him to eBay shortly and I hope no one else gets taken by this crook. If you think of any thing else I would appreciate it. I will let everyone know what the outcome of all of this leads to. I have withdrawn all of the money from Paypal and will be visiting my bank shortly. Thanks for the heads up on this also.”
Personally speaking. I would advise vehicle sellers never to accept more than a small PayPal Deposit to seal the deal ($200-300) and have the balance bank wired into my account. There’s no chargeback reversals possible with that method.
Seller posted this: OK here we go. He did contact me again and said almost word for word another message thought might happen. He said fuel pump, sensor, fuel filter etc. That so far it has cost him $1000.00. He ended saying $500.00 would help with these repairs. I have not responded to him. Remember he does do charge backs through his credit card and Paypal.
Someone also mentioned me closing out my bank account, but what about PayPal. They are suing to get back $3K from one of his sellers currently. If they pay the credit card back they freeze your account. I sell minor things all the time and use my Paypal account. This will indeed cause some major headaches. Do I message back or wait for consequences, if there are any?
We are keeping an archive of this discussion which is turning into a vehicle chargeback nightmare for this top rated seller.Page-1 and Page-2 and Page-3 and Page-4.
The buyer has a previous reputation of leaving negative feedback for his buyers. eBay created this one-way system and openly supports buyers extorting money from sellers.
Or as eBay Radio Uncle Griff said: Trust and Safety, after a careful and lengthy review, determined that this was not feedback extortion. The intent of the buyer asking for a partial refund (which in and of itself does not constitute feedback extortion) was to redress what he believed to be a misrepresentation of the vehicle’s condition. 😆
Updated 06/24/14. The seller posted this last night: This morning first of all the guy demanded the money or threatened me with filing a VPP. Now he just messaged again demanding to know if I am going to pay TODAY or else. I have not messaged him back only once when eBay told me to tell him they told me not to pay him.
PLEASE HELP FIND A WAY TO STOP HIM FROM DOING THIS. HOW MANY PEOPLE DOES HE HAVE TO TORMENT BEFORE HE IS STOPPED. I KNOW I SAID ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ABOUT THIS TOPIC BUT I WANT SOME HELP FOR OTHERS WHO FALL PREY TO THIS BEAST. PLEASE READ THIS: This morning I messaged another one of this guy’s negative feedback. Through ebay messages he wanted $2000.00 and this guy selling was selling for someone else. They gave him back the 2K and then he turned around and chargedback $2000.00 through paypal from the seller. Check out jmm9cc’s feedback( left for other’s) you will see one that eBay removed (my first contacted person lost 3k) and now fivestar_race (My 2nd I contacted this morning for a total of 4K.) There are others and I am sure they will all have similar situations to report.
This is what eBay has done by creating a One Way Feedback System! And this is only one article about how buyers are extorting their sellers. Vehicles are some of the most expensive items for sale on eBay. And with this one way policy in place scamming buyers flock to eBay!
There’s even an eBook on Amazon titled “The Great BIG eBay Con – How to buy just about anything and get your money back” shame on eBay for enabling this fraud and being the buyers partner in crime!
Update 08/19/2014: I have interviewed both the buyer and the seller. Here are the recordings. You be the judge of who is being truthful in this rift.
Update 09/06/14. Received this from the seller: Hi, I was just about to message you when I checked my email. Last week Paypal sent the information to the guy’s credit card company and on the same day they closed the case. Our hard work and truthfulness paid off for once.
I appreciate all you have done and you can post that this one goes for the good guys. This would not have happened if you guys hadn’t did your part and keep all of us aware of the scams that go on. Keep up your good work and we so appreciate all you have done for us and continue to do for others. Thanks soooo much, Nancy Elaine.
eBay has tossed their community values out the window. I remember back a few years ago Uncle Griff saying “If we don’t have buyers we will be out of business.” It was soon after that remark that the one way feedback policy went into effect.
It is my personal opinion that without the community values and trust eBay is no different than any other classified website on the net. It was that community and trust that made selling cars on eBay Motors work so well back in the good old days!